Lands design open for render engines like Vray for Rhino?

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If you mean if you can use VRay-Proxies with Lands Design, the answer is yes with a simple workaround. Just insert and save them in 3dm files and you will be able to use them in plants, fences, rows, etc.

First sorry, looks like my post is shown without text I wrote.

You wrote at the other thread, that FlamingoNxt is needed for the better plant system. That's a pity. So if I understand right, Lands design is a object library and placement software with special features for architects. Couldn't not the Flamingo plant system implemented for free render use?

Sidenote: the trees from VBvisual.com are great to use for Rhino. Quite good looking and very low poly (max. 8000 polygons per tree). Maybe you can make a deal with VBvisual and sell a well implemented tree bundle for Lands design.

Attached an example that show a scene with VBvisual trees. I wished, I could get a Tree&plant system that works at this level based on a tree&plant generator. Maybe the Flamingo generator could do the job.

Attachments:

Hi,
Thanks for your suggestion. I've downloaded a demo tree from VBvisual just to test if it can be used in Lands. These are the steps to follow:

- I've downloaded the Maple 08 in 3ds format

- I've imported the 3ds file in Rhino and I've saved it in a 3dm Rhino file.

- I've inserted a plant with Lands. By default, if Flamingo is not present you get a simple untextured plant:

- After selecting the species in the Lands Edit Panel, I've changed the Realistic-3D Shape:

- I've browsed to the Maple 08 file in 3dm format. The Species representation has changed to a VBvisual plant:

- I've rendered the scene with the Rhino render. I got a realistic plant:

So, though Flamingo nXt is the preferred option for Lands, if you have your own realistic plants in a format that can be imported in Rhino, you can use them in Lands.

Regards.

Thank you for the workflow example. :)

Do you see a chance to get the Flamingo plant generator for all render engines working?

I think there is a market. Vray is the number one renderer for architects (there was a long article about render engines in the www somewhere) and Rhino is a great tool for architects too. Only a plant generator system is missing, that create plants at render time.

This is a good point, use nXt only for the plant generator engine.

Technically it's possible, but in nXt the resulting plants are not so low poly as the VBvisual ones. I don't know how Rhino is going to feel if, before render, dozens of small meshes converts to heavy meshes.

And of course we should make a deal with the nXt developer in order to license the nXt core for that particular use.

Anyway it's an idea to explore.

Vray and other render engines shouldn't have a problem with the polygon count, the bottle neck is the Rhino display (a complex bike model and the display slow down). So, if Flamingo nXt handle it, than Vray could do it too. ;) The teams of Maxwell and Brazil could be interested too. I think, the trick is, that the display pipeline doesn't get the full plant data.

I think, it's a question of time only, if a plant and tree generator will be seen at Rhino. There would be no competitors.
My first thought was, that Lands design is the long missed tool. But maybe it will be it. ;)

Hi Micha,
Have you ever used the trees from VBvisual.com in VRay?

I found the following problem:
After importing the 3ds file in Rhino, what we have are meshes with standard Rhino materials. They looks good in the Rhino render, but in VRay (and in Flamingo nXt) the transparency of the material textures is ignored:

Rhino render:

nXt render (Vray does the same):

This is really disappointing. If there isn't a way to use standard Rhino materials with transparent textures in any renderer, it will be impossible to extend the nXt tree generator beyond Flamingo...

Have you any trick to achieve it?

I started to use the trees some years before and remember me, that I created png version with separate alpha maps.

VfR 1.05 doesn't supported textures with alpha channel. The new VfR 1.5 support vray materials where the user can enable alpha support (for png, tga..). I think, it shouldn't be a problem for the VfR developing team to enable the support of the integrated alpha channel for simple Rhino materials too. It's at the VfR to-do-list as case case 8233.

But moment, you mean that the transparency map of Rhino materials isn't supported. The problem is, that Vray works with transparency maps (inverted alpha maps). The simpliest solution would be, if the color texture would contain the alpha channel (png, tga) and the render engine use this channel.

Attachments:

Better conclusion - Rhino is using alpha maps and Vray needs transparency maps. The developer would need to add enable the the "invert" option for Rhino transparency maps. Should be no problem too, from my view. I will ask the team.

Thanks for your explanations, Mikka.
In effect, using a 32-bit png with alpha channel isn't still enough. Vray should realize that there is transparency in it, and do the same as "use color texture as transparency" for a vray material.
If this already is in the todo list of Vray developers, then it's only a matter of time to get this behavior.

So, a good strategy for the plants will be to create materials with both a Color texture and a Transparency texture, keeping the alpha channel in the Color texture for those plugins that don't use alpha maps.

Here is an advance of how nXt plants can be seen in Rhino. These are special low poly versions that even can be moved at real time.

Hi Micha,

Wonderful illustration you posted there.  Did you use nXt to render the scene or Vray?

What did you use to achieve such realistic grass on the rendering?  I've been trying for ages to generate a non repeating grass texture but have never quite nailed it.

All the best,

Andrew

Micha said:

First sorry, looks like my post is shown without text I wrote.

You wrote at the other thread, that FlamingoNxt is needed for the better plant system. That's a pity. So if I understand right, Lands design is a object library and placement software with special features for architects. Couldn't not the Flamingo plant system implemented for free render use?

Sidenote: the trees from VBvisual.com are great to use for Rhino. Quite good looking and very low poly (max. 8000 polygons per tree). Maybe you can make a deal with VBvisual and sell a well implemented tree bundle for Lands design.

Attached an example that show a scene with VBvisual trees. I wished, I could get a Tree&plant system that works at this level based on a tree&plant generator. Maybe the Flamingo generator could do the job.

@Andrew: I used Vray and used a grass texture with displacement. The whole landscape material is one material with layers, where a transparency map controlled the visibility of the sand, grass, stones ... . Short cuted grass can be good created per texture. Also so my exterior portfolio at simulacrum.de for some simple grass example exteriors.

@Albert: a solution for Vray is on the way, the developer are implementing a solution, I will write which will work. It will be implemented in one of the nightly betas and official released with the next update in the next time. So far the current state. :)

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